Written By Fairen
June 20, 2018, 2:26 p.m.(1/18/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Reigna
You are a very ironic woman, Countess. Very ironic indeed.
Written By Reigna
June 20, 2018, 2:20 p.m.(1/18/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Thena
It is, is it not?
The only problem with it is that one can rarely invoke the charge of being supercilious without in turn being it yourself. So it is very much a 'hand with care' adjective. I, for instance, fall prey to it often. Just ask those in the Whites. I am *wretched* about it.
The only problem with it is that one can rarely invoke the charge of being supercilious without in turn being it yourself. So it is very much a 'hand with care' adjective. I, for instance, fall prey to it often. Just ask those in the Whites. I am *wretched* about it.
Written By Thena
June 20, 2018, 2:16 p.m.(1/18/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Reigna
Supercilious! That’s an excellent word.
Written By Reigna
June 20, 2018, 2:12 p.m.(1/18/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Fairen
And yet, instead of doing so yourself in a meaningful fashion, you instead erroneously claim that other gods were invoked within the topic and Limerance had been left out, as if those participating lacked a fundamental pillar of the conversation or understanding of the topic. When in fact none of the gods, or even the Faith had been broached at all.
But please, do continue to be supercilious.
But please, do continue to be supercilious.
Written By Thena
June 20, 2018, 2:11 p.m.(1/18/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Fairen
Just stating that Limerance is not my go-to god when it comes to the question of lies, so I understand why it’s not anyone else’s.
Written By Fairen
June 20, 2018, 1:59 p.m.(1/18/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Thena
True, but integrity and honesty is a way of adhering to your vows. My comment was that Limerance should be brought into the conversation at some point, not particularly the focal point of it.
Written By Quenia
June 20, 2018, 1:31 p.m.(1/18/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Derovai
I was speaking specifically to the cause of Aurelian. Who I was suppose to marry, but then . . . well, you've read the judgment, I'm sure. But, I do not feel the need to further explain when you see fit to twist things around to selfishness.
Written By Reigna
June 20, 2018, 1:27 p.m.(1/18/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Niklas
Because lying is bad. It means your word cannot be trusted.
Oh... is this satire?
Am I being unfunny again?
Oh... is this satire?
Am I being unfunny again?
Written By Thena
June 20, 2018, 1:26 p.m.(1/18/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Fairen
Perhaps it’s because truth and justice fall under the auspices of the Sentinel.
Written By Reigna
June 20, 2018, 1:26 p.m.(1/18/1009 AR)
Which other gods were called out? I have asked for a review of the journals concerning the topic of lying that I started but I am now wondering if I missed one.
I am always fascinated with the conversations and opinions that come from these sorts of questions and I think we serve our future generations well by recording these conversations in our Whites.
That being said, the impetus for this particular conversation was rooted in my disillusionment and despite the sated curiosity and mental distraction provided by these journals... I find I am still baffled at the ability some have to be so disingenuous. To present oneself as something, not once but repeatedly. To loudly proclaim something in a way that evokes an almost obligatory response from someone else and then turn around and within mere *days* display one's true motives? So blame a fissure on someone else's "failing" and then show the cause to be something entirely different, self-aggrandizing and beneficial? Something that would, in fact have taken weeks of planning and negotiation that flies in the face of other conversations and proclamations... it shows the true depths of dishonesty within someone.
I did not realize there were people so capable of frank and abject duplicity. Be this a lesson to me.
Trust is a gift I have given to each person I meet. I trust that they are not a villain. That their goals are aligned with the greater good. That when they speak, they do so from the heart and with honesty.
Sadly, I have to rethink this nature of mine.
I am always fascinated with the conversations and opinions that come from these sorts of questions and I think we serve our future generations well by recording these conversations in our Whites.
That being said, the impetus for this particular conversation was rooted in my disillusionment and despite the sated curiosity and mental distraction provided by these journals... I find I am still baffled at the ability some have to be so disingenuous. To present oneself as something, not once but repeatedly. To loudly proclaim something in a way that evokes an almost obligatory response from someone else and then turn around and within mere *days* display one's true motives? So blame a fissure on someone else's "failing" and then show the cause to be something entirely different, self-aggrandizing and beneficial? Something that would, in fact have taken weeks of planning and negotiation that flies in the face of other conversations and proclamations... it shows the true depths of dishonesty within someone.
I did not realize there were people so capable of frank and abject duplicity. Be this a lesson to me.
Trust is a gift I have given to each person I meet. I trust that they are not a villain. That their goals are aligned with the greater good. That when they speak, they do so from the heart and with honesty.
Sadly, I have to rethink this nature of mine.
Written By Niklas
June 20, 2018, 1 p.m.(1/18/1009 AR)
Lots of people here talking about lying when it comes to saving lives and preventing disasters, which, okay, sure, why not?
But what about lying because it's fun?
Lying is the best!
I've always said, never let the truth stand in the way of a good story.
But what about lying because it's fun?
Lying is the best!
I've always said, never let the truth stand in the way of a good story.
Written By Oriana
June 20, 2018, 12:47 p.m.(1/18/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Reigna
To further complicate the issue... there are larger and smaller truths. Lana, replying to her Lord could quite honestly say of a larger truth, 'Truly, my lord, I have much to be grateful for.' Or, perhaps, a smaller in-the-moment truth, 'I have had better days, my lord, but you'll forgive me that it is nothing I wish to discuss. How are you and yours?'
Written By Bliss
June 20, 2018, 12:46 p.m.(1/18/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Fairen
It is curious, isn't it?
So let me speak on this some, as someone who has Devoted herself to Him.
I do not believe I have consciously told a lie in ... Months, at the least. Perhaps longer. There have been cases where there have been, perhaps, lies by omission, but if I have it's because there is a single goal: to hold firm to the vows that I have sworn, and the trusts that have been placed in me, particularly as a Whisper.
This is not to say that there are times I won't, but they must be extreme, they must be to save lives or right some injustice that can only be righted in that way, when there is no other option left. Marquessa Quenia has provided an example of what I am talking about. Still, I would find myself torn on the matter, and I would find myself seeking penance of some kind to make it right in my head.
Without integrity, we cannot function. And you know? When I have told the truth to people, even when they didn't want to hear it, even when it meant I couldn't be that which they wanted to be, I've found it only earned their respect. Yes, they railed on me in the moment, but then they know that - no matter what - I will hold to my vows.
So let me speak on this some, as someone who has Devoted herself to Him.
I do not believe I have consciously told a lie in ... Months, at the least. Perhaps longer. There have been cases where there have been, perhaps, lies by omission, but if I have it's because there is a single goal: to hold firm to the vows that I have sworn, and the trusts that have been placed in me, particularly as a Whisper.
This is not to say that there are times I won't, but they must be extreme, they must be to save lives or right some injustice that can only be righted in that way, when there is no other option left. Marquessa Quenia has provided an example of what I am talking about. Still, I would find myself torn on the matter, and I would find myself seeking penance of some kind to make it right in my head.
Without integrity, we cannot function. And you know? When I have told the truth to people, even when they didn't want to hear it, even when it meant I couldn't be that which they wanted to be, I've found it only earned their respect. Yes, they railed on me in the moment, but then they know that - no matter what - I will hold to my vows.
Written By Fairen
June 20, 2018, 12:34 p.m.(1/18/1009 AR)
I find it rather curious that not once in a discussion regarding integrity and honesty has Limerance been brought into the conversation. Yet other Gods have.
Written By Sina
June 20, 2018, 12:16 p.m.(1/18/1009 AR)
Today, I'll be visiting the Shrine of the First Choice, and then on to the Lodge of Petrichor. But first, I have some work to do, as I've been given leave to work on a project for the Society of Explorers, and the Scholars, which I am quite excited about.
Written By Aureth
June 20, 2018, 12:05 p.m.(1/18/1009 AR)
I know factually that several of the people claiming that lying is unacceptable have lied, and that makes me naturally suspicious of the rest.
Absolutes are interesting, but real choices are the ones that matter, not the ones you claim to make to moralize before others.
Absolutes are interesting, but real choices are the ones that matter, not the ones you claim to make to moralize before others.
Written By Wylla
June 20, 2018, 11:35 a.m.(1/18/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Sparte
Speaking of which, I announced your idea at the destruction of the Shrine of Jayus! I hope people have contacted you regarding it. For those of you who were not there, Sparte had the wonderful idea of people dedicating building materials at the Shrine to Jayus, if they could not themselves build it. Please contact him or me and we'll keep track of the dedications as the new year progresses.
People seemed to like the idea, I think!
People seemed to like the idea, I think!
Written By Sparte
June 20, 2018, 11:30 a.m.(1/18/1009 AR)
What is the value of a stone, a prayer, a simple mark on rock?
It is the value it has been given, by those who make it and those who see it. By those who pray, who dream, who believe, and who doubt.
I hope. I am disinclined to believe hope gives any value, but I do it anyway. I wonder why that is? Is isn't quite belief, it isn't quite doubt. Hope is uncertainty without denial of possibility. Hope is potential.
I want these rocks, however small and varied, to have potential. I hope others will want the same.
It is the value it has been given, by those who make it and those who see it. By those who pray, who dream, who believe, and who doubt.
I hope. I am disinclined to believe hope gives any value, but I do it anyway. I wonder why that is? Is isn't quite belief, it isn't quite doubt. Hope is uncertainty without denial of possibility. Hope is potential.
I want these rocks, however small and varied, to have potential. I hope others will want the same.
Written By Fredrik
June 20, 2018, 11:27 a.m.(1/18/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Reigna
From: Desk of Fredrik RedTyde
Subject: Acceptable Lying
Is it ever acceptable? Well, that is a very difficult question, because what is socially acceptable changes throughout history. For example, before a few weeks ago it was socially acceptable for a shaman to work as a Mercy, provided they venerated Lagoma. This is not to comment on the Dominus' edict or it's righteousness, merely to show that what is acceptable changes often, and that includes what it is acceptable to omit or lie about. Without the lie of omission, one is asked to answer challenges, be lambasted in the Whites, or even be persecuted, depending on the strength of that which they hold in different view from the social norm. But while I can waggle my hand at the acceptability of it socially, when it comes to it being /necessary/?
Yes. Sometimes it is absolutely necessary. A lie kept me alive for almost twenty years while my family was hunted down and killed. Whether we deserved it or not is immaterial for this discussion, because the point stands that if I had not lied to the Thrax, and to anyone else that asked during those years? I would have been murdered in a brutal fashion, and most likely my adopted ones and my crew would have been as well. So yes, sometimes it is absolutely necessary, even if not acceptable.
An extreme example, I admit it, but it is the one I have, even if I know almost nobody will have to be put in those extremes and thus it is not relevant to them.
Subject: Acceptable Lying
Is it ever acceptable? Well, that is a very difficult question, because what is socially acceptable changes throughout history. For example, before a few weeks ago it was socially acceptable for a shaman to work as a Mercy, provided they venerated Lagoma. This is not to comment on the Dominus' edict or it's righteousness, merely to show that what is acceptable changes often, and that includes what it is acceptable to omit or lie about. Without the lie of omission, one is asked to answer challenges, be lambasted in the Whites, or even be persecuted, depending on the strength of that which they hold in different view from the social norm. But while I can waggle my hand at the acceptability of it socially, when it comes to it being /necessary/?
Yes. Sometimes it is absolutely necessary. A lie kept me alive for almost twenty years while my family was hunted down and killed. Whether we deserved it or not is immaterial for this discussion, because the point stands that if I had not lied to the Thrax, and to anyone else that asked during those years? I would have been murdered in a brutal fashion, and most likely my adopted ones and my crew would have been as well. So yes, sometimes it is absolutely necessary, even if not acceptable.
An extreme example, I admit it, but it is the one I have, even if I know almost nobody will have to be put in those extremes and thus it is not relevant to them.
Written By Oswyn
June 20, 2018, 11:24 a.m.(1/18/1009 AR)
I've decided on a project to achieve the rank of Senior Scholar. I have quite a bit of other research to get through before I really begin, but the idea has been approved and that's something.
I'll have to borrow a number of maps to copy. Possibly I can work on the new project while on my journey with Lady Nightgold.
I'll have to borrow a number of maps to copy. Possibly I can work on the new project while on my journey with Lady Nightgold.
Please note that the scholars may take some time preparing your journal for others to read.