Written By Gerard
Oct. 13, 2018, 10:07 p.m.(10/10/1009 AR)
I may hold my own opinions about many things Aleksei chooses to say and the man himself that I will, from here unto the forseeable future, refrain from saying, but he is correct. Lord Everard /was/ the Sword of Telmar at the time of the incident, I believe.
However, this still gives him absolutely zero right to release the sword to anyone, any more than I could release Ida's store to another just because I live there and am entrusted with the keys.
However, this still gives him absolutely zero right to release the sword to anyone, any more than I could release Ida's store to another just because I live there and am entrusted with the keys.
Written By Aleksei
Oct. 13, 2018, 10:04 p.m.(10/10/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Cambria
I believe that Everard _was_ Sword of the Telmarch at the time of the event in question.
Written By Arik
Oct. 13, 2018, 10:03 p.m.(10/10/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Cambria
Do the Gods accept the wagers of those with no right to make them?
If I were to go before Gloria and bet my sisters life on a duel and lose. Would she be enthralled? Would she be executed? I had no right to wager Khanne's life, but because we declared it before Gloria all reason must be lost?
If I were to go before Gloria and bet my sisters life on a duel and lose. Would she be enthralled? Would she be executed? I had no right to wager Khanne's life, but because we declared it before Gloria all reason must be lost?
Written By Gerard
Oct. 13, 2018, 10:02 p.m.(10/10/1009 AR)
it was not backhanded, it was an insult. perhaps one wrongly put forward, as you have pointed out, and for that I will apologize, but I was straight-forwardly insulting him for the fact he directly and very much candidly insulted the house I serve.
That being said, it was wrong to stoop, and for that, I apologize.
That being said, it was wrong to stoop, and for that, I apologize.
Written By Cambria
Oct. 13, 2018, 9:57 p.m.(10/10/1009 AR)
Aleksei paid the price for the vows he was unable to keep, and did the penance accorded him by the Faith. (And lest anyone forget, he was released from his vows, thus, he is not an oathbreaker). To offer the man a backhanded insult now shows none of the virtues the Faith would have us pursue. What's more, without repeating history in full, no one questioned whether it was right, wrong, fair or unfair that Aleksei /should/ be punished. He was, despite anybody's personal feelings on the matter.
The man himself has responded to certain journals quite succinctly himself, saving me a bit of ink. I do wish to add one point to the 'discussion,' at hand:
Sword's represent the honor of a House. That means they are a symbol made flesh. A Sword that acts disreputably, casts shame upon their House. This man was not even the Sword at the time, but made a bet of something he should not have. Worse still, as I understand it, the very duel itself was before Gloria. Do bets made before the gods get conveniently swept aside just because a person in question is both dead and a villain?
The man himself has responded to certain journals quite succinctly himself, saving me a bit of ink. I do wish to add one point to the 'discussion,' at hand:
Sword's represent the honor of a House. That means they are a symbol made flesh. A Sword that acts disreputably, casts shame upon their House. This man was not even the Sword at the time, but made a bet of something he should not have. Worse still, as I understand it, the very duel itself was before Gloria. Do bets made before the gods get conveniently swept aside just because a person in question is both dead and a villain?
Written By Aleksei
Oct. 13, 2018, 9:57 p.m.(10/10/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Gerard
I was _released_ from my vow. I'd appreciate you choosing that word _real_ carefully.
Written By Gerard
Oct. 13, 2018, 9:47 p.m.(10/10/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Aleksei
except they aren't waving away responsibility, despite having absolutely no obligation to hand over their House Weapon, as pretty much literally /everyone/ in this situation agrees. They have agreed they have responsibility, have attempted to work it out with the offended party, have engaged a neutral third party in attempts to mediate the situation, and now engaged with the faith to mediate. They have, for all intents and purposes, made every effort to honor the harm done to the people involved, it seems.
You made one of the most solemn vows it is possible to make, and then broke it. Whether the Faith has decided it has been sufficiently suffered for or not, I can hold my opinion, just as you can, that's the beauty of the Whites. just as your choice of coarse language does not make your arguments any more comprehensive. However, I have made my opinions known, and have decided it is probably best for all concerned if I go back to my training and leave such things to those with the stomach for them.
You made one of the most solemn vows it is possible to make, and then broke it. Whether the Faith has decided it has been sufficiently suffered for or not, I can hold my opinion, just as you can, that's the beauty of the Whites. just as your choice of coarse language does not make your arguments any more comprehensive. However, I have made my opinions known, and have decided it is probably best for all concerned if I go back to my training and leave such things to those with the stomach for them.
Written By Arik
Oct. 13, 2018, 9:38 p.m.(10/10/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Aleksei
Traditions define our society.
Use champions to settle duels, it's a tradition.
Use Whispers or the Faith to mediate disputes, it's a tradition.
Marriages are meant to be practical not love matches for the Peerage, it's a tradition.
Hierloom weapons belong to the House, not the Sword that carries it, it's a tradition.
Holdings belong to the House, not the Head of House at the time, it's a tradition.
If some head of house tried to abdicate their families claim to a holding, their family would have every right to ignore that and assert their rights. That is exactly what has happened here. Someone has done something they could not do and the family is asserting their rights over Vowkeeper.
Use champions to settle duels, it's a tradition.
Use Whispers or the Faith to mediate disputes, it's a tradition.
Marriages are meant to be practical not love matches for the Peerage, it's a tradition.
Hierloom weapons belong to the House, not the Sword that carries it, it's a tradition.
Holdings belong to the House, not the Head of House at the time, it's a tradition.
If some head of house tried to abdicate their families claim to a holding, their family would have every right to ignore that and assert their rights. That is exactly what has happened here. Someone has done something they could not do and the family is asserting their rights over Vowkeeper.
Written By Aleksei
Oct. 13, 2018, 9:34 p.m.(10/10/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Gerard
Yeah, I knew some fucker was going to try this. Except mine was a vow, and I submitted myself to the judgment and penance of the Faith. Try again.
House Telmar doesn't get to simply wave away responsibility because we all know now that Everard was an honorless traitor. They should have publicly condemned Everard as soon as they heard about what he did to Bliss, not hold it as a potential condition of some negotiation. That is the very least they could have done, without any further condition.
It wasn't Everard's right to bet away House Telmar's heirloom weapon? Damn right it wasn't, but sometimes we have to live with consequences of the people who betray us. The mess Everard left behind is House Telmar's to clean up by right. The oaths he made as the _representative of House Telmar's honor_ are theirs to keep. Whether they wish they were or not.
House Telmar doesn't get to simply wave away responsibility because we all know now that Everard was an honorless traitor. They should have publicly condemned Everard as soon as they heard about what he did to Bliss, not hold it as a potential condition of some negotiation. That is the very least they could have done, without any further condition.
It wasn't Everard's right to bet away House Telmar's heirloom weapon? Damn right it wasn't, but sometimes we have to live with consequences of the people who betray us. The mess Everard left behind is House Telmar's to clean up by right. The oaths he made as the _representative of House Telmar's honor_ are theirs to keep. Whether they wish they were or not.
Written By Gerard
Oct. 13, 2018, 9:23 p.m.(10/10/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Aleksei
glass houses and stones.
Written By Aleksei
Oct. 13, 2018, 9:11 p.m.(10/10/1009 AR)
An oath is an oath.
And you fuckers call yourself _Oath_landers.
And you fuckers call yourself _Oath_landers.
Written By Cambria
Oct. 13, 2018, 8:01 p.m.(10/10/1009 AR)
I have biases. You have them. We all do. However, the ability to recognize your own bias is oft considered a mark of wisdom.
This isn't something that is going to change.
It is completely normal for us to base our opinions on our own moral beliefs. We are, at heart, either individualist or communitarian, hierchist or egalitarian. These are core attributes that would be difficult, if not impossible, to change.
But what we CAN do is make a conscious effort to catch ourselves when we make rapid judgment calls without the facts. We can educate ourselves on both sides of an issue and make an effort to use facts instead of feelings in our arguments.
What we CANNOT do is expect everyone to play by these rules. But that is okay because by understanding how an opposing view was developed, we can use that to form our own arguments. We can call out these biases. What we cannot expect is for facts to change their deeply held beliefs, no matter how ignorant those beliefs might be.
We can correct the lack of information, but we cannot really expect someone with a confident, sacrosanct opinion to change their minds. They will hold on to a belief even after it is proven factually incorrect because, as we sometimes are all guilty of, people can be confident idiots. Remember, facts have nothing to do with why another has their point of view.
The good news is that there are individuals in the middle, who may not have a deeply held opinion about sensitive topics or issues. These are the men and women who can be reached by logic and facts. It is nearly impossible to battle confident ignorance, but with facts, you can influence people who are undecided.
Let us strive not to fall victim to confident ignorance. Let us try to educate ourselves with facts instead of enabling ourselves with emotional bias.
This isn't something that is going to change.
It is completely normal for us to base our opinions on our own moral beliefs. We are, at heart, either individualist or communitarian, hierchist or egalitarian. These are core attributes that would be difficult, if not impossible, to change.
But what we CAN do is make a conscious effort to catch ourselves when we make rapid judgment calls without the facts. We can educate ourselves on both sides of an issue and make an effort to use facts instead of feelings in our arguments.
What we CANNOT do is expect everyone to play by these rules. But that is okay because by understanding how an opposing view was developed, we can use that to form our own arguments. We can call out these biases. What we cannot expect is for facts to change their deeply held beliefs, no matter how ignorant those beliefs might be.
We can correct the lack of information, but we cannot really expect someone with a confident, sacrosanct opinion to change their minds. They will hold on to a belief even after it is proven factually incorrect because, as we sometimes are all guilty of, people can be confident idiots. Remember, facts have nothing to do with why another has their point of view.
The good news is that there are individuals in the middle, who may not have a deeply held opinion about sensitive topics or issues. These are the men and women who can be reached by logic and facts. It is nearly impossible to battle confident ignorance, but with facts, you can influence people who are undecided.
Let us strive not to fall victim to confident ignorance. Let us try to educate ourselves with facts instead of enabling ourselves with emotional bias.
Written By Khanne
Oct. 13, 2018, 7:58 p.m.(10/10/1009 AR)
That any one person feels they are owed such extravagant recompense because they were victimized by a traitor whose actions caused so very many people to lose their lives, and families to lose their loved ones, is absolutely ludicrous to me. That this person is a Whisper makes it all the more surprising, as this level of undiplomatic selfishness seems to go against what the Whispers are known for. That she is a Voice of the Whispers as well only increases the level of insanity that this is.
Written By Juniper
Oct. 13, 2018, 7:49 p.m.(10/10/1009 AR)
Whisper House remains neutral, as I am certain will be confirmed by our Radiants when they have opportunity to put ink to paper, but it is certainly understood if there are doubts as to that neutrality under these circumstances. I'm sure the Faith will do an excellent job in seeking resolution in the matter between Bliss Whisper and House Telmar... though I do regret not having the opportunity to do so, ourselves.
Written By Perronne
Oct. 13, 2018, 7:46 p.m.(10/10/1009 AR)
Wow, there's a lot of gossip in the streets right now about this whole Sword thing! I'd never think to see the day when a commoner, much less a Whisper, tries to demand her way into a noble house and marriage, either for herself, or for any children she might have, and to do it publicly! I'm reasonably sure that my mother's family is somewhere fanning themselves profusely in shock as they read the missives from Arx.
But, sadly, I'm also pretty sure they're not surprised. I mean, in the last several years, so many commoners have been raised to nobility or married into nobility for minor reasons, or no reason at all, that I doubt Bliss Whisper is the only ambitious courtier looking around and wondering, "Why not me?" and figuring out whatever they can do to get a piece of that action. The nobility has created this situation, both by allowing traitors and scoundrels like Everard to flourish until their villainy boiled over...wait, that's mixing a metaphor, maybe 'like Everard to simmer until their villainy boiled over'? Maybe that's better. Yeah, I like that! Um, but anyway - both by not addressing the dishonorable in their own ranks (and it isn't like Everard is the only Sword recently been found to act without honor, but who was protected and defended by peers anyway), and by so devaluing the gaining of a noble position that it seems a height anyone might acquire.
I mean, I'm not really on Team Anyone here - sounds like Everard was a good face of the worst the nobility can be, but I can't say I like how Bliss Whisper has comported herself, either. Trying to force nobles into a marriage for herself or her children is extremely distasteful (especially to a House she claims she would not swear her service to), and she seems to think Telmar owes her the treatment they would give to an equal, and despite what the nobility likes to say when they want to be friends, the truth is that when a House's prestige or honor is on the line, commoners are not and shall never be treated as equals. Things like this are why! At this point, she's smeared a good amount of mud on their name, which is more vengeance than most commoners will ever see, so I think she should just accept a nice, large payout to go away, and go do something that gives her joy.
But, sadly, I'm also pretty sure they're not surprised. I mean, in the last several years, so many commoners have been raised to nobility or married into nobility for minor reasons, or no reason at all, that I doubt Bliss Whisper is the only ambitious courtier looking around and wondering, "Why not me?" and figuring out whatever they can do to get a piece of that action. The nobility has created this situation, both by allowing traitors and scoundrels like Everard to flourish until their villainy boiled over...wait, that's mixing a metaphor, maybe 'like Everard to simmer until their villainy boiled over'? Maybe that's better. Yeah, I like that! Um, but anyway - both by not addressing the dishonorable in their own ranks (and it isn't like Everard is the only Sword recently been found to act without honor, but who was protected and defended by peers anyway), and by so devaluing the gaining of a noble position that it seems a height anyone might acquire.
I mean, I'm not really on Team Anyone here - sounds like Everard was a good face of the worst the nobility can be, but I can't say I like how Bliss Whisper has comported herself, either. Trying to force nobles into a marriage for herself or her children is extremely distasteful (especially to a House she claims she would not swear her service to), and she seems to think Telmar owes her the treatment they would give to an equal, and despite what the nobility likes to say when they want to be friends, the truth is that when a House's prestige or honor is on the line, commoners are not and shall never be treated as equals. Things like this are why! At this point, she's smeared a good amount of mud on their name, which is more vengeance than most commoners will ever see, so I think she should just accept a nice, large payout to go away, and go do something that gives her joy.
Written By Victus
Oct. 13, 2018, 7:45 p.m.(10/10/1009 AR)
Ah, and to think I thought today would be a boring one.
Written By Gerard
Oct. 13, 2018, 7:44 p.m.(10/10/1009 AR)
having read all responses, my response, for the public record, remains exactly the same. inflexible? Perhaps, but I can tend to be on matters of honor, it's a habit of mine.
Written By Cirroch
Oct. 13, 2018, 7:42 p.m.(10/10/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Morrighan
My thoughts as well. The traitor had no right to bet the house sword, and while Bliss was wronged, her demands are too great to be met.
Written By Morrighan
Oct. 13, 2018, 7:32 p.m.(10/10/1009 AR)
I rarely ever comment on anything in a public manner. I mostly keep my thoughts to myself, but the fuckery I've read today has prompted me to say something. I heavily disagree with this matter regarding Vowkeeper, as the Sword of Farhaven. What happened to Bliss was shitty, but to think one is entitled to the House Sword of a noble family is beyond ludicrous. Everard, the traitor, had no right or place to bet the family heirloom blade on a duel. None. No place at all. It's just not done. It was wrong. To demand a noble house to give you their FAMILY sword, though? Hahahahaha. No. It should stay with their family, in their fealty, where it belongs, duel or no duel, but that's just my two silver on the matter.
Written By Preston
Oct. 13, 2018, 7:32 p.m.(10/10/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Rosalie
Indeed - I don't disagree. It seems that some accommodation is there to provide Bliss with a sword - for the history and meaning of the sword are not important to Bliss I do not think - in place of that. Just as if someone were to pay a 10000 silver bill with a prized ring they had no place to offer, you might ask for the ring back, but offer the 10,000 silver to ensure the person is whole.
It is regrettable that we need to even hear about it - I cannot believe it is beyond Telmar and Bliss to solve this. Both are honourable, after all.
It is regrettable that we need to even hear about it - I cannot believe it is beyond Telmar and Bliss to solve this. Both are honourable, after all.
Please note that the scholars may take some time preparing your journal for others to read.