Written By Aleksei
Feb. 4, 2019, 9:27 p.m.(7/7/1010 AR)
Relationship Note on Willow
Vice Captain Shard spent weeks of her time on the sea and in Stormward personally assisting in the care and transport of the twenty thousand thralls House Kennex freed. She, like many others, was a part of seeing each of them transported to wherever they chose their new home to be. Settled with room and board and the start of a new life. The Valorous Few made room in their ranks for some of those newly-freed souls.
Maybe you should actually know what a person has done before you start mocking them for having done nothing.
Children may not be able to inherit the debt of their parents' anymore, thank the gods. But the thralldom reforms didn't actually forbid enthralling children for other reasons. We're not seeing the end of child thralls. And here's the thing:
Every silver we pay people to buy the debt of thralls? Is just silver for people to make new thralls. To pay for reaving the next shav village and bring home new quarry. The reforms _don't slow the creation of new thralls_.
The _only way_ to stop this -- actually, really stop it -- is to stop thralldom. Actually stop it.
Also, like, a whole _ton_ of people are saying "not know." I can literally point at the journals.
Maybe you should actually know what a person has done before you start mocking them for having done nothing.
Children may not be able to inherit the debt of their parents' anymore, thank the gods. But the thralldom reforms didn't actually forbid enthralling children for other reasons. We're not seeing the end of child thralls. And here's the thing:
Every silver we pay people to buy the debt of thralls? Is just silver for people to make new thralls. To pay for reaving the next shav village and bring home new quarry. The reforms _don't slow the creation of new thralls_.
The _only way_ to stop this -- actually, really stop it -- is to stop thralldom. Actually stop it.
Also, like, a whole _ton_ of people are saying "not know." I can literally point at the journals.
Written By Shard
Feb. 4, 2019, 9:22 p.m.(7/6/1010 AR)
Relationship Note on Willow
Buying debts
does not
end
thralldom.
It only contributes to creating more thralls because you are paying the slavers ludicrous amounts of money to give you slaves. Ludicrous amounts that they made up. You are paying a ransom over and over and over again. You are accepting that it is better to buy people than to fight the actual system. It's illegal to make a child a thrall in House Thrax. They have numerous vassals that have not, and will not, adopt those reforms. Furthermore, what about the people that aren't children any more? Are they somehow more deserving of slavery because they got too old to be good fodder for you to beat your chest over? What about the parents of those children? What about older siblings? What about their families?
What kind of an argument is this that people keep going 'well, what are YOU doing?' I'm advocating to release all of them, that's what I'm doing. I'm pointing out why Brass's offer is important, and not just because he can give us shit. And, among other things, I was actually there to help the freed thralls from Kennex, I was there to see what was going on, I was one of the people Aleksei pulled in to do just that. Audric and I recruited a whole lot of them into the Valorous Few, which isn't great work for most people, but is, at least, work, for which they are actually paid a decent amount of money. I don't bring that up every five minutes because I think arguing about who is and isn't qualified to argue against slavery is fucking stupid.
We shouldn't be buying slaves. We should be dismantling the entire thing, brick by Slaver laid brick, as quickly as possible, because these are not crates of goods or racks of clothes or a heap of lumber, these are people. They have families, they have friends, they have fears and joys and obnoxious habits. Ending thralldom shouldn't be measured with /time/, it should be measured with the number of lives we're forcing to live like that every single day.
does not
end
thralldom.
It only contributes to creating more thralls because you are paying the slavers ludicrous amounts of money to give you slaves. Ludicrous amounts that they made up. You are paying a ransom over and over and over again. You are accepting that it is better to buy people than to fight the actual system. It's illegal to make a child a thrall in House Thrax. They have numerous vassals that have not, and will not, adopt those reforms. Furthermore, what about the people that aren't children any more? Are they somehow more deserving of slavery because they got too old to be good fodder for you to beat your chest over? What about the parents of those children? What about older siblings? What about their families?
What kind of an argument is this that people keep going 'well, what are YOU doing?' I'm advocating to release all of them, that's what I'm doing. I'm pointing out why Brass's offer is important, and not just because he can give us shit. And, among other things, I was actually there to help the freed thralls from Kennex, I was there to see what was going on, I was one of the people Aleksei pulled in to do just that. Audric and I recruited a whole lot of them into the Valorous Few, which isn't great work for most people, but is, at least, work, for which they are actually paid a decent amount of money. I don't bring that up every five minutes because I think arguing about who is and isn't qualified to argue against slavery is fucking stupid.
We shouldn't be buying slaves. We should be dismantling the entire thing, brick by Slaver laid brick, as quickly as possible, because these are not crates of goods or racks of clothes or a heap of lumber, these are people. They have families, they have friends, they have fears and joys and obnoxious habits. Ending thralldom shouldn't be measured with /time/, it should be measured with the number of lives we're forcing to live like that every single day.
Written By Shard
Feb. 4, 2019, 4:01 p.m.(7/6/1010 AR)
Relationship Note on Willow
Are you running a high fever right now?
Written By Aleksei
Feb. 4, 2019, 11:12 a.m.(7/6/1010 AR)
Relationship Note on Willow
"Literally no one is arguing not to abolish thralldom."
I'm afraid you've never been to the Mourning Isles.
I have heard many, many people argue as to the perfectly fit morality of thralldom. Many.
The Isles are not just full of houses that only want _more time_ to abolish thralldom. You're being fooled into this idea in order to think that only my side is the _unreasonable_ one. The Isles are full of traditionalist houses who _never want to abolish thralldom_. Because they do not find it immoral. They do not find it equivalent to slavery. And because it _benefits them to never get rid of it_.
It's tradition, after all. And the Isles don't love anything more than tradition.
Maybe people should actually talk to Brass about the potential of timing and planning other than to apparently ask him for _fifty years_.
I'm afraid you've never been to the Mourning Isles.
I have heard many, many people argue as to the perfectly fit morality of thralldom. Many.
The Isles are not just full of houses that only want _more time_ to abolish thralldom. You're being fooled into this idea in order to think that only my side is the _unreasonable_ one. The Isles are full of traditionalist houses who _never want to abolish thralldom_. Because they do not find it immoral. They do not find it equivalent to slavery. And because it _benefits them to never get rid of it_.
It's tradition, after all. And the Isles don't love anything more than tradition.
Maybe people should actually talk to Brass about the potential of timing and planning other than to apparently ask him for _fifty years_.
Written By Shard
Feb. 4, 2019, 6:26 a.m.(7/5/1010 AR)
Relationship Note on Willow
The thralls you care about should be that reason.
What's the point of words if you're not willing to take necessary action to back them up? No one is proposing a plan. They're just saying 'not now', if they're entertaining the idea at all. Not now, not now. We can't start now. It's too dangerous. It costs too much money to undo what we did. Don't let your feelings get in the way. Let's all dig a hole and pretend that it's okay to say 'not now' and turn our backs not only on these people but also on the potential means of fighting back against the greatest dangers to our civilization. Let's keep pretending the civil option is to keep telling enslaved people 'not now. You have to wait until it's more comfortable' or 'not now, you have to spend decades more of your life like this, and then, if you're still alive by then, then maybe it'll happen. Probably not. But maybe.'
You know what would be a good first step? You know what might make me feel like this and all the other protests that say 'not now' but claim they're the best friends of the people they're saying not now to is a little more than empty words? Thrax could stop allowing new thralls to be made. They could stop raiding villages for new slaves. But I bet you that won't be a popular proposal. I look forward to hearing about how it's not the right time to even stop bringing new people into the system, let alone freeing the ones that are already there.
What's the point of words if you're not willing to take necessary action to back them up? No one is proposing a plan. They're just saying 'not now', if they're entertaining the idea at all. Not now, not now. We can't start now. It's too dangerous. It costs too much money to undo what we did. Don't let your feelings get in the way. Let's all dig a hole and pretend that it's okay to say 'not now' and turn our backs not only on these people but also on the potential means of fighting back against the greatest dangers to our civilization. Let's keep pretending the civil option is to keep telling enslaved people 'not now. You have to wait until it's more comfortable' or 'not now, you have to spend decades more of your life like this, and then, if you're still alive by then, then maybe it'll happen. Probably not. But maybe.'
You know what would be a good first step? You know what might make me feel like this and all the other protests that say 'not now' but claim they're the best friends of the people they're saying not now to is a little more than empty words? Thrax could stop allowing new thralls to be made. They could stop raiding villages for new slaves. But I bet you that won't be a popular proposal. I look forward to hearing about how it's not the right time to even stop bringing new people into the system, let alone freeing the ones that are already there.
Written By Shard
Feb. 3, 2019, 9:16 p.m.(7/4/1010 AR)
Relationship Note on Willow
At no point was my argument that Thrax /will/ do this. My argument, in fact, was explicitly that they won't, because they value the metaphorical coat over the lives of other people. They'll sit around all day making excuses and saying 'this is the wrong time, there's too much danger, our economy will suffer', and on and on and they will do that every single time this subject comes up, because those costs aren't going to change.
As for what to do in this metaphor? Well. You can freeze to death. You can try to find another coat. Or you can take it from him by force.
...That last option isn't one anyone's going to like. It's a lot worse than making a plan in advance and having the whole Compact cooperate in trying to mitigate the fallout. But no group of slaves stays docile forever, and history has an awful lot of prominent examples where people stopped asking nicely.
As for what to do in this metaphor? Well. You can freeze to death. You can try to find another coat. Or you can take it from him by force.
...That last option isn't one anyone's going to like. It's a lot worse than making a plan in advance and having the whole Compact cooperate in trying to mitigate the fallout. But no group of slaves stays docile forever, and history has an awful lot of prominent examples where people stopped asking nicely.
Written By Aleksei
Feb. 3, 2019, 10:34 a.m.(7/4/1010 AR)
Relationship Note on Willow
Thrall debt _is_ imaginary. It's an inflated number made up in order to keep someone in bondage. It's not actual money owed to anyone; it's a justification for continued enslavement. The numbers aren't _real_.
That said, of course forgiving them all would have an effect, because any business or society that relies on _free labor_ is going to have to figure out how to survive by actually paying people.
I'm sure you care plenty about thralldom. It's just real clear what you care about more.
If you care more about the slaves, you start thinking about how to make it happen.
If you care more about the slavers, you start thinking of reasons not to help the slaves _too quickly_.
You care more about the exploiters than the exploited.
That said, of course forgiving them all would have an effect, because any business or society that relies on _free labor_ is going to have to figure out how to survive by actually paying people.
I'm sure you care plenty about thralldom. It's just real clear what you care about more.
If you care more about the slaves, you start thinking about how to make it happen.
If you care more about the slavers, you start thinking of reasons not to help the slaves _too quickly_.
You care more about the exploiters than the exploited.
Written By Shard
Feb. 3, 2019, 1:54 a.m.(7/3/1010 AR)
Relationship Note on Willow
If a thrall has never known any other life, it's because they were either born into Thralldom or made a thrall so young they don't remember anything else. Think about that.
And if I have two coats, and give you a coat because you don't have one, then we both have a coat, and we're both less likely to freeze to death. That sounds like a practical solution to me. If I don't give you my extra coat and decide to keep it instead, it's because I value the coat I don't need over your life.
Think about that too.
And if I have two coats, and give you a coat because you don't have one, then we both have a coat, and we're both less likely to freeze to death. That sounds like a practical solution to me. If I don't give you my extra coat and decide to keep it instead, it's because I value the coat I don't need over your life.
Think about that too.
Written By Aleksei
Feb. 2, 2019, 4:08 p.m.(7/2/1010 AR)
Relationship Note on Willow
And why do you think Shard speaks out in favor of dismantling thralldom with no care for what happens to those people? Do people really think _Brass_ doesn't care what happens to them?
When Kennex abolished thralldom overnight, the response wasn't exactly idle. The Faith had been building services to help support people who had recently been freed, and we sure weren't ready for twenty thousand of them, but we scrambled and we worked and countless people stepped up to help and we _managed_. The idea that the people who care the most about abolishing thralldom would then wash their hands after it was done and not care about the people who had actually been thralls is, frankly, bullshit.
I really done with the "but abolishing thralldom would be bad for the thralls!" shit that always goes around.
You know what's bad for slaves? SLAVERY.
When Kennex abolished thralldom overnight, the response wasn't exactly idle. The Faith had been building services to help support people who had recently been freed, and we sure weren't ready for twenty thousand of them, but we scrambled and we worked and countless people stepped up to help and we _managed_. The idea that the people who care the most about abolishing thralldom would then wash their hands after it was done and not care about the people who had actually been thralls is, frankly, bullshit.
I really done with the "but abolishing thralldom would be bad for the thralls!" shit that always goes around.
You know what's bad for slaves? SLAVERY.
Written By Reese
Feb. 2, 2019, 9:43 a.m.(7/2/1010 AR)
Relationship Note on Willow
I got a wonderful painting from Willow. She is so very talented.
Written By Thena
Jan. 26, 2019, 3:01 p.m.(6/16/1010 AR)
Relationship Note on Willow
Speaking of reading strangers' journals, you're under no obligation whatsoever to take relationship advice from a militant priest. That being said...
I used to be into that type myself until one of 'em left me bleeding out in a gutter.
I used to be into that type myself until one of 'em left me bleeding out in a gutter.
Please note that the scholars may take some time preparing your journal for others to read.